AIs Role in the SaaS Buying Process
The B2B SaaS buying process has been broken forever. Some forward-thinking companies have adapted to reducing friction, but with new AI tools dropping every day, are we seeing the end of the inbound SDR?
So, okay, what's up?
How's it going?
It's going good, going good.
Another week in the books.
I wanna talk about something that happened to me this week
that I think is interesting and it was really a surprise
to me, to be honest.
PostScript has a, we have a big project coming up
that required me to do a couple of demo requests
on software companies' websites.
I haven't done those in a while because, you know,
people aren't, like we talked about last time,
people aren't buying software.
So, it's been a minute.
And in both cases, and look, I'm not trying to like,
you know, pump myself up here, but like,
I'm filling out the form, it's like, Mike Mannheimer,
here's my LinkedIn profile, like,
Chief Marketing Officer at PostScript,
like it's like, what's your budget range for this?
And like, tens of thousands of dollars, right?
In both cases, I got set up with the meeting,
probably slower than I should have been,
but got set up with the meeting.
And in both cases, it was an inbound BDR qualification call.
And I hit up Dan, my sales counterpart at PostScript,
and I was like, what, like, is this, am I crazy?
Like, I thought this was gone.
Like, we have all these signals, we have all this data,
like, what are you trying to qualify?
Like, I get it if someone's like,
you look them up there, like the intern or whatever,
like you gotta like ask them to be quiet.
But, you know, it's like, we're a large company,
it's raised $100 million, I'm a sea level executive
at the company, it's me, like, it's not like a fake person.
So, he was like, well, I think everyone still does
these calls, 'cause like, we don't do that at PostScript.
Like, somebody does a demo request,
we see that they're like this founder, the VP of Ecom,
at a qualified Shopify store, we put them on with, you know,
someone who can help answer their sales questions immediately.
Like, we only call if we need to,
but I could tell I was being forced through
like a mandatory call process,
I thought that was like a relic of the past,
like, have you experienced this?
What's your take on this?
Well, first of all, I'm still waiting for your form submission
to come through the audience plus...
(laughing)
No, I mean...
- And your form is quite funny.
- That was, oh, okay, that was funny.
No, I'm kidding.
You know, we know this guy very well close to the company
named Obed Durani, and he just posted this video today
that like, is very timely for this conversation.
Wouldn't it be crazy if when we ask people,
when we have a button that says talk to sales,
if you could actually talk to sales on the other side,
like, wouldn't that just be mind-blowing?
So no, it's really interesting, right?
Because, you know, I think the entire like role of the SDR
is really being challenged a little bit in this world.
Like back in the bull markets, back when we worked together,
it was like, well, you have so much volume
that you have to like qualify people through
and you need to run them through what band or whatever
before you get them on the phone with an AE,
because the scarcity there was the time of the rep.
I don't know that that's, I mean,
I could be proven wrong, but I don't know
that that's the current reality of the software sales reps
day in and day out today.
So I'm with you, I think, you know,
if you have someone, if you're able to qualify off of a form,
then why on earth would you introduce friction
to the process?
Like let's get this high-value contact
through the process to a rep as fast as possible.
- Yeah, and I'm not like, you know,
I understand not letting everyone get onto an AEs calendar,
even if the calendar has a bunch of spots on it.
But I'm saying like, I'm knowing what I know.
I think in both of these cases,
I am very clearly the decision maker
at an ICP level account.
- Yeah.
- And I have a bunch to say about the role of the BDR
in the future.
I actually think they're gonna probably be like,
less disrupted than people currently are saying.
But yeah, but I take like,
it's like a customer first approach to it.
It's like, you said with friction,
like you don't want to introduce friction
where it's totally unnecessary.
And we have all the data, we have all the signals,
you're qualifying through a form,
you can enrich with every piece of data ever made.
So like, why?
Like it was really surprising to me.
And I also had like,
a experience with one of these vendors
that was actually really positive to your talk to sales thing.
The BDRs I talked to in both of these qual cases
were very, very good, awesome.
It was fine, good experience.
- How long were the calls?
- The calls were both about 15 minutes.
- Okay.
- The problem, like they did a really good job.
I also think like there wasn't much information
for me to get that like they could give me.
I was like, hey, like looked at the website,
I have like a general understanding about how this works.
And then I would say what I thought
and they'd be like, yeah, that's pretty much it.
So we're gonna get you set up.
I'm like, well, what was the point of this?
It wasn't that they did a bad job.
It was like, obviously someone was telling them
that they had to do that.
But it was definitely a waste of time.
Like if I was like a jerk,
I could have like freaked out
and sent a scathing email to the CRO
or even worse posted a LinkedIn, you know,
hot take dunking on a poor and bound BDR.
I would never do that.
- Or quote a podcast episode.
- Yeah.
- They don't know.
- Not naming names on the show.
- Action, that was a safe.
- Yeah, come on.
- No, the BDRs did a great job.
It's obviously that they're following the process.
But I just think like the process was totally unnecessary.
And then I actually needed information
from one of these vendors faster
than I could wait for this call that they got set up.
So I hit up the rep directly on LinkedIn.
I said like, hey, I have 10 minutes worth of questions
that I needed to answer to them today.
Here's my cell text to me.
And he did in like one minute.
And he was like, I'm free to chat for five if you want.
And I called him.
We hashed it out.
It was great.
And like that was a really good experience.
And to your friend who said,
like what if you click talk to sales and you talk to sales?
That was like a way better buying experience.
I like built rapport with this guy.
He was available when I needed him.
He answered the questions that I had
and wasn't trying to like tell me his book.
He was like, what do you need from me today
to do what you need to do?
Very helpful, 10 minutes long, great.
We still have our call scheduled.
So now coming into that call,
like I'm more excited and happy
and I already helped me out.
So I don't know.
I just think like people should really think about
like getting to that faster.
And in the idea of protecting someone's calendar too,
like the calls don't all have to be 45 minute demos.
Like the buyers really sophisticated at this point.
Like get them what they need
to be able to help them make a decision.
You have to listen to what they want and be flexible
on the call.
But I think people are just like,
everyone goes to RKO.
You see the slide of like the process.
And it's like form to inbound BDR,
then inbound BDR call to 45 minute demo
where the first 30 minutes is like,
here's who invested in us.
Here's how we think about the world.
And like you need to educate your buyers sometimes,
but I think nowadays with all the information we have,
like it'd be a lot more flexible than that.
- Do you think that's what drove it?
- Yeah.
- You only an SQL until you were able to like have that call
and then there was no way because of some internal process
or funnel like exit criteria that
- Yeah, I think it's all process driven.
It's like there's a process that we need to follow
the CRM and the rules in it are driving the rep behavior.
And so like if somebody,
if the AE who was assigned to my account,
saw me do the demo request,
he would have to go like ask his manager,
Hey, you know, Mike, the CMO at the company
I've been trying to reach out to just did an inbound demo
request, can I circumvent the process to be locked in?
That's like a crazy thing to have to ask.
- Right.
- And it frustrates, I'm sure it frustrates the AE's
and the BDR's, right?
You know, what if you could go do this whole thing,
monetize this, this lead faster?
And it also frustrates the buyers, like, you know,
there's a lot of information on a website.
I can get a pretty good amount of it.
I can go on YouTube and probably see a recorded demo
of any software I want.
So I just think people need to challenge their,
you know, their process slides a little bit and say, like,
you know, where can we fast track some of these discussions?
Because if you move at the speed that's being dictated
by an informed buyer, you'll probably have a higher
likelihood of selling something faster.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- Like it benefits everyone.
I was just surprised.
I was like, oh, I didn't realize this like hard
and fast rule was there even in cases where it's like,
high ICP, you know, you're talking to the DM,
you've established through the form that there's budget.
So like we got, we got all the ingredients here.
Like let's just sell some stuff.
So I was surprised that's not what I was experiencing.
- Well, I want to ask you about your comment though
about like the future of the role itself.
Because I view a distinction between,
which I know these are just acronyms for everyone,
but like SDRs versus BDRs or whatever,
where like inbound or said another way,
in human beings that are inbound gatekeepers
to the sales team around inbound demand.
So whether that's a demo request
or any other like form of hand raisers.
And then BDRs who are human distribution, right?
They are people that are using tools to push the message
to your ICP, your target accounts or whatever.
Now, I think there's a lot of,
first of all, I think people are grouping these two
kind of distinct roles together
when they're kind of plotting their demise of sorts.
I don't think that's all together a good thing.
I would argue or I'm sitting, is that outbound
or the kind of BDR function,
as I'm defining it here,
is still very important, but pretty,
but it's changing quite a bit, right?
Like the channel mix is changing,
you know, is the boiler room kind of sales floor
kind of model effective in 2024 or anymore?
But I for one tend to believe there is something there still
for human beings doing outbound selling basically
into our target account list.
But I'm not so sure about the SDR,
maybe to your very point,
can technology, dare I say it, AI agents,
something help do a more efficient job
of getting a form fill like you at least,
maybe there's some data challenges
with really automating a lot of this
for someone that isn't identifying as
a chief marketing officer for a well-known company.
Do we need SDRs in the future?
- Yeah, I think there are definitely a bunch of cases
where the answer is like, absolutely yes.
And the reason I think humans need to be involved,
whether it's an inbound or an outbound sort of capacity,
is because like the hard thing to do is like,
what you're really going for in both cases is a response.
And it's surprisingly difficult, way more difficult
than you think, even an inbound,
like I can't tell you the amount of like people
who fill out a form or download our app.
And then you're like, hey, great,
like you look like a great fit,
like what questions can I answer for you?
Can I get you set up with an onboarding person?
Like we're trying to serve their request,
dark for a month, two months.
- Yeah.
- I don't think that you can totally automate
that process at least definitely not today.
You know, you need somebody who like understands
your business, can use the data to decide
who is worth trying to drive outreach to.
And then the whole point of it isn't,
is to create a response,
not just to distribute something.
You know, like, and I think that that's really,
that's really where the crux of, you know,
outbound and inbound prospecting
has to have the human touch in my opinion.
Because it's really about, you know,
you have to do the pattern interruption
and cut through the noise.
The noise is just whatever everyone else
is doing all of the time.
So like people are like, oh, AI's gonna fix that.
Well, when everyone's doing AI,
that's just gonna be the new noise.
- The noise.
- And so what you really need is people
who understand your business very deeply,
high business acumen,
and who have high creativity
that results in responses from prospects,
whether or not they're inbound or outbound.
That is going to be a very long time
until that's fully automated.
I think that AI can help all these things be faster,
they can help BDRs or STRs or whatever you wanna call,
call the title.
People who are doing prospecting,
whether it be inbound or outbound,
I think AI can help them a lot,
can make them a lot smarter, a lot faster,
can feed them insights that help them do what they need to do.
But I think, you know,
we're trying to get a human being
to respond to another human being
via creativity and business value.
For now, and for in my opinion,
for the foreseeable future, that's a human's job.
- Yeah, I think that's right.
I think that's right.
But it's interesting enough you saw the GPT-40
like demo or whatever,
with the support use cases of voice,
basically what you call an AI agent,
two of them talking together,
one on behalf of someone trying to return something,
and the other one is a support rep.
And again, this was a demo for whatever,
who knows what went into it.
But you can start seeing a window in the future
or at least that use case of a support,
the customer support representative,
which might be actually quite disruptive
to anyone working in a call center
from a post sales perspective, at least,
or from a BPO or something along those lines.
- I think it has to do with,
is there a direct path?
Like, when someone needs to make a return,
and then there's a return process.
- Yes.
- It's like a discrete thing, you know,
like we're trying to go down a path
that's been basically fully defined
because there's a set of steps that need to be done
to be able to make a return.
- Yeah.
- I see how AI can automate either all
or a big chunk of that process.
And I expect that that's happening today
for working with the orgs,
and it'll happen for a lot of orgs soon.
Like there's, if you, whatever industry you work in,
I can speak to this because in E.com,
I see it all the time.
There's at least a handful of people
who are attacking AI in support-related use cases.
And I think the reason that we're seeing it there
is because the processes that people need to do.
In E.com, it's like, where's my order?
I need to make a return.
- Yeah.
- I ordered the wrong thing, like all of that sort of stuff.
There's those kick off set paths
of things that need to be done
to resolve the customer's issue.
The AIs can be pretty good at that
'cause it's trying to move through a set of paths.
What I'm talking about with the BDR is like,
what, like the AI would have to say,
what does a CMO care about?
What does my product do that attaches to those things?
How is this CMO's particular company performing
in the market?
Are there opportunities for me to like,
give some business value to them
and cause them to respond to me?
That's just like a, there's no set path for that.
That requires, I think, a lot of human creativity.
- Yep.
- And I'm open to being totally wrong about this,
but I just don't see a world where it's doing all of that
and then let's call it the next like three years.
Could it be 10 years that's happening?
- Maybe.
I'm not totally sure.
But getting back to where we started this conversation,
like it doesn't require AI to see that like your ICP DM
at your ICP account filled out a HubSpot form on your website.
And like, it's just funny to me.
Like even this, even what we're talking about,
what about like one day, could you automate out everything?
People can't even get me on the phone with the rep
within the hour of me basically being like,
I have money here, like somebody talked to me and take it.
We can't even do that.
We're talking about like automating these like crazy,
crazy business processes.
So I think, you know, there's probably between now
and when AI takes your job,
there's probably a lot of opportunity for like you
to clean up your house, build a better business process,
do things that make the revenue cycle happen faster
and create better experiences for your buyers.
Right now, you don't need AI to do that.
That's just about letting your really smart humans
do the right thing for the customer
based on what they can see from the form submission.
I think based on my experience this week,
a lot of companies still aren't even doing that.
- So I agree with your broader point.
- Yeah.
- No doubt about it.
But I'll challenge kind of how you got there a little bit.
- Okay.
- From my perspective, like what I'm learning.
I agree that, or where I thought you were headed with that
was the difference between support and an inside sales
kind of call process or whatever is,
there's really not a need for creativity in post sales,
like, you know, read the sort of like standard operating
procedure, move the customer through the set process
and do what you have to do.
There's, I mean, again, with full respect to that role,
there's just not a lot of like room or margin
for creativity, it's not needed.
Whereas your broader point around from a quality perspective,
from getting a response perspective,
from an attention 1000%, completely agree with you.
What I've been surprised by,
really in the last couple of weeks,
is studying kind of what AI has been able to do
from a place of inference.
And this is the newness, I think,
with the latest models that's really interesting,
is certainly they can,
what I imagine could happen is when somebody fills it,
when you fill out that form, they have your name,
they have your title and they have your company, right?
Amazing.
They can scrape your LinkedIn profile,
they can have a AI process that basically goes to LinkedIn,
scrapes your profile, ingest all of your data in real time,
or maybe in a couple of minutes, whatever it is,
asks GPT40 or whatever to consume all of it,
including all of your latest posts,
any articles that you've been referenced in,
infer or use all of that data,
go into PostScript to understand what your product does,
who you sell to, and kind of basically build
almost like a dossier for you in real time.
And I think that what makes AI a little crazy now
is going from being basically a word calculator,
which is basically taking all these things
and kind of spitting out a new profile of sorts of mic.
It's using that data to make inferences
that we're trying to get answers to.
So for example, I don't know what products
you were kind of filling out a form about,
but these are the specific features within our own product
that Mike might be interested in.
And we're inferring that based on the industry
of the company that he's in, his current role,
any latest blog posts that they might have written,
so on and so forth.
And what I have seen is actually probably not ready
to be implemented in replacing humans,
but I don't think 10 years off is the future
where it is ready.
I would argue it's probably maybe not to replace humans,
'cause again, the creativity point made earlier,
but I think the idea for AI to actually infer
and reason is getting better, which is actually, again,
interesting for business and terrifying for life,
but really getting pretty good.
And if you want an example of this,
I think it's a company called dossier.gpt or something.
They produce this concept and then Darmesh,
a hub spot has been building,
I think it's agent.ai,
where you can effectively just plug in a company name,
and it's quite powerful to see what comes out the other end.
So again, agree with your broader point,
but I've been spooked a little bit
and intrigued as a technology company founder or whatever
about just how good that reasoning engine is getting.
- Yeah, I really believe in the idea
that AI is going to be like everyone stepping
into their own Iron Man suit, right?
Like they get new powers,
they can do all the things they need to do way better, et cetera.
I 100% believe in that.
I think people are getting some value like that now,
and the value that is going to go up.
Where I'm still very skeptical is the replacement,
the AI actually took my full job away.
- Totally.
- I think that that's pretty far away,
but I totally agree with you that AI can tell us a lot
about people who are evaluating our products,
it can give us answers to questions,
it can, I put in into GPT just to see what it came up with,
and it was pretty dang good.
I was like, hey, if you had to compare PostScript
to its main competitors as a Shopify merchant,
like what do you think the strengths and weaknesses are?
The response was extremely credible,
like the type of thing that I would say,
if someone asked me that question on a sales call.
So I get all that value.
I think that what it is is it's going to allow people
to do things that spend their time doing things
that the AI can't do,
which I think is gonna be more of the creativity aspect.
- Yeah, I can't remember if I referenced this
on a previous episode, but we, I saw this tweet
about AI where someone was like saying,
I don't want like AI to like learn how to do poetry
so I can spend more time doing the dishes.
I want AI to figure out how to do the dishes
so I can spend my time doing my poetry.
And I think like that's where we're headed.
And I think that that's good.
I just think like the full automation idea
is like the wrong idea.
Like I don't like it when people start the AI conversation.
Like the executives eyes get all big
and they're like, how many roles can I replace with this?
You know, it's like,
- Right. Oh yeah.
- Yeah.
- And I feel like a lot of people are like,
that's like they're starting from like,
that's the value prop.
And I'm more saying that like,
I think a lot of the value prop should be about
how can you take all of the things that people have to do,
which a lot of it is mundane, you know,
box checking type work.
- Right.
- And get that off their plate so that they can reach
their full creative potential in whatever role
that they're in.
- Yeah.
- And theoretically that would yield overall
better results.
Even in the support use case, right?
If 60% of the tickets that come in for any commerce brand
are where is my order tickets
and AI can handle those,
then your CX team can focus on the more complicated stuff
or the surprise and delight moments for customers
that they can see are buying lots of things
and asking questions.
And so that's where it's like,
you automate to create more business value
with the folks that you have.
I think like that's the world we're like in and headed
towards, which is a great world.
The world where it's like,
oh, you know, we're gonna have,
like and no one's gonna have a job in two years.
I don't believe in that world today.
- Yeah, no, I'm with you.
I'm with you on that.
I actually think we completely agree on this in general.
I do wanna just for fun,
do you wanna do a little demo together?
- Sure.
- Tell me to pound sand if you think it's a bad idea,
but it could be fun just like do a moment in time
of where is the reasoning engine today
at the publishing date of this episode?
And then we can revisit this in a couple years.
- Okay, cool.
- Yeah, where we're at.
But I need your written, I need your verbal consent
that I can search your name.
I don't wanna know. - Oh, no, oh.
- If you don't want to, we don't have to.
- Go ahead.
- You sure?
- Oh, God.
I don't know, edit the sound if it comes up
or something crazy.
(laughs)
- No, but the question is, and it's still processing.
Hopefully by the time I click this, it's on live.
The question is like, how good is this inference thing?
How good is the reasoning of this platform?
- What's the prompt?
- Nothing.
Your name and your company.
- Ooh. - That's all that was put in.
So this is again, this could be off of a lead gen form.
- Okay. - Right, or off of anything.
It comes out dossier, GPT, or I guess it comes out,
ammonia, al-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-i, I think.
But this came out live this week,
so this is actually brand new, right off of the GPT-40.
I think it's built on 40.
It has been more than three minutes,
so this is probably edited at some point here, Todd.
- No, this is proving my point.
- It is true, it is too old.
- If it pops up and it says PostScript is the best,
Mike Mannheimer is the smartest.
Everyone should use PostScript if you have a shop at Firestore,
then that I'm a believer I'll change my tune instantly.
- Then it's worth it.
- Yeah, then I'm like, everyone, just use AI for everything.
(laughing)
- It's a good idea.
- Yeah, it's great.
Take everyone.
- Oh, here you go, look at this.
- Perfect, okay.
So look, it pulled on the left side
of the screen your LinkedIn profile,
so ignore that for a second, right?
So here's what it's telling us about you.
Mike, current position, location,
all of this information, right?
- It's all right.
- Some mics, season, market,
you're a seasoned marketing executive,
the strong focus on B2B and sales is gonna work a strategy.
- Isn't it funny that we call each other seasoned?
Like that's like--
- I know.
- It's like a food.
(laughing)
- Nope, maybe.
- Maybe. - Maybe have a reason.
Maybe to your point, I've done this about five, six times.
Everyone has been seasoned.
- Everyone has been heavily seasoned.
- Don't forget to-- - Okay, go ahead, sorry.
- That was good.
- All right, so the question is like,
now these interests are inferred.
This is not like just a word calculator,
so it's inferring, and so you tell me
if this is true or not.
That you're interested in professionally, of course.
SMS marketing, strong use of SMS and B2B to see.
Promoter score, growth marketing, continuous learning.
- Are those--
- I mean, that's not wrong, but that's not wrong.
No, yeah, that's accurate.
I would say, hold on, I'm looking at this right now.
- I'm all sure that's with you, of course.
- Yeah, I think, yes, some of these are more on than others.
Like the SMS marketing write up that it did
is like really, that's pretty strong.
- Pretty strong, yeah, that one,
that one I felt pretty good about
and knowing you, of course,
and the work you're doing at PostScript.
Net Promoter score, I mean, unless there's something--
- I wrote a blog post about NPS a long time ago,
so it must've found that.
And then like, summarized it and used it
as like a personal interest.
- Yeah, so check us out.
So this is where the SDR comes in or whatever, right?
- Yeah. - Topics of interest for discussion
when meeting with Mike consider these following topics,
innovations in SMS marketing, I think that sounds good.
- Yeah. - 'Cause more loyalty and NPS.
Maybe I would've liked to maybe have a reference there
that you just wrote a blog post,
so I can like reference a blog post,
growth, marketing, continuous learning,
and development, e-commerce trends.
It's pretty good.
- Yeah, the thing that's, if I had to critique this,
this is pretty good.
If I had to critique this,
oh, there's the circus on the bottom.
- Yeah, it's working, I see that.
- Yeah, if I had to critique it, what I would say is,
it's basically re, it's taking what I'm talking about
in the world and trying to build a profile of me.
But it's not, like just because I'm talking about something
doesn't mean that like, it's particularly my interest, right?
Like I talk about SMS marketing for my customers all the time.
- So I'm obviously interested in SMS marketing
like for my customer and I talk about it a lot,
and that's what's coming back to this.
What I would say is, if you're trying to like get my attention,
it's not always true that parroting back stuff
that you see online is actually aligned with like,
well, the problems I'm trying to solve.
You know what I mean? - Yeah, yep.
- Like if someone was like,
"Hey, AK, I see you're really interested in owned marketing."
You'd be like, "Ah."
- Oh yeah, okay.
- Yeah.
- So there's probably like a,
again, this gets back to the human component, right?
It's like a human would say,
what does Mike, the CMO at PostScript care about?
Like I probably care about like winning business
from my competitors.
You might have better luck sending me an email
that's like, "Hey, Mike, here's some things
that competitor A or doing that I thought
would be interesting to you."
Versus being like, "Hey, Mike,
I think you're really interested in SMS marketing."
- Yeah, totally.
- And so like that's like the extra level.
And when I think about like noise and response
and like all of that,
like the bar's just going up and up and up.
So it's like, I almost think that there's probably a chart
that's like the bar for getting attention
is going up at some, at the same ratio
that AI's getting better, right?
It's like they're happening at the same clip.
And that's, that Delta is creating the continued need
for human reasoning, business acumen, creativity
to continue to exist.
And maybe the slope of the graphs change
and AI like closes that gap.
But I think that that's like the image I have in my head.
Like there's two lines going up at the same time.
AI is getting way smarter
and the bar to capture someone's attention is going way up.
And they're both going 100 miles an hour
in the same direction and maybe one day they'll intersect.
- Yeah, it's funny.
I was thinking about too, like it's only gonna be so good
as the information we feed it.
And it's almost like, I think we talked about
this in a previous episode, LinkedIn,
and sometimes can become like the Instagram for work
where we're painting this picture
that everything's great and we're killing it
when things are really hard.
So yeah, you know, I don't know if there's,
if there's a perfect way for even a human to know this,
but you know, you might be,
like the discussions happening internally
and the problems you're looking to solve
aren't always like publicly disclosed.
And so it's not being fed into any type of algorithm
that could infer anything really.
- Yeah, what you really need is like,
it's like a bunch of inferences that lead to like
background knowledge, a bunch of inferences
that lead to something, you know?
And so yeah, I think that what you showed
was definitely way better than I thought.
I also think that if you're gonna be in like
the top 10% of outreach to Mike Mannheimer,
you probably need to like think about it for a sec.
well done. And yeah.